Update on Roscoe....

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roscoe	Update on Roscoe....	Lead	[-]
Registered User Posts: 31 (11/08/09 18:43:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Hey everyone, it's been a while since we've been on I know? I've had lots going on the past 6 mo. I just had a baby last Sept 30 and it's been a rocky road with my health for a while now due to complications from my c-section, so I've had a rough past year. Hope all is well on here (we've missed all of you) I'm hoping all our friends are still on here when I was last on here? Roscoe has had a rough past year as well trying to adjust to dog food / insulin changes too, and when I saw the topic of food/insulin I had to jump on the ban wagon and ask some questions? We were feeding Roscoe W/D food and switched from Vetsulin to Humulin N insulin due to cost effectiveness since we have three little ones and only one out of diapers, so we had to look into an alternative to Vetsulin because it was costing too much to maintain his health with Vetsulin, Vetsulin needles, and W/D food? I know others have dealt with this very same issue and made the change over too! Much more cost effective this way, but now we cannot seem to get him to gain weight? He was gaining weight for a little while on the Humulin N and W/D,but we had him on 4 cups a day ( vet orders) and 8 units of insulin? Then he started loosing weight again, so we upped his insulin by 1/2 units to see if it would help him to gain some weight? He seemed to be doing ok, but still he wasn't gaining weight and we couldn't up his food anymore, so we just recently changed his food to see if maybe W/D just wasn't working for Roscoe? Does anyone have any experience with this that could be of some help to us??He is so skinny and we cannot seem to figure out how to get him to gain weight? He is currently on 81/2 units of insulin twice a day and we switched him from W/D (mixing at first) to an all natural dog food ( I can't remember the name of it and we thru out the bag? I've been checking his blood glucose levels and they have been all over the chart recently. Yesterday he had a low blood glucose crash and his blood glucose was 50 with the meter I have? I don't know how much I'm supposed to add to it to make it accurate? He was staggering all over the place and couldn't stand up. We thought he was dying? So we gave him some honey to bring his numbers up? Then he came out of it and he was fine the rest of the night. The next day I tested him before his evening feeding, so he hadn't eaten in 12 hrs and his numbers were in the 400's? What is going on with him? We can't figure it out?Is that normal? We are beside ourselves here? Can anyone help us? Thank you, Denise and Roscoe Name: Denise,Shawn & Roscoe Breed: English Springer Spaniel - Liver & White Weight: 34/35lbs. (estimate) Age: 3 1/2 yrs. DX: Got Roscoe in Nov. 2005, diagnosed at 2 with diabetes in 2007 Insulin Name & Units given : 8 units Novulin N 2/day Food used how much? W/D, 4 cups/day Treat given if any. No treats yet...? Denise Smith and Roscoe
Mollyroger		#1	[-]
Posts: 12945 (11/08/09 19:43:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Denise and Roscoe , We have noticed if Molly's weight vary's even a little bit, we need to adjust her insulin. If you could do a curve on Roscoe, starting with his fasting, and then every 2 hours (every hour would be great especially if you are having lows). That will give you an idea of onset, peak and duration. With the lows, you want to know if he is dropping more than 100 points in an hour. Great thinking with the honey. I carry syrup everywhere with us. Even leave some with her groomer. :-) Could you tell everyone how much Roscoe weighs now? Sometimes after being on an insulin for a while the amount can change. I'm sure there are some members that can help a lot in the food dept. We home cook Molly's food so it's differnt for her. Sending lots of blessings Blessings, Peggy and Miss Molly - Levemir 2x a day 12 hours apart. Basal is Humalog (Rapid) meal bolus - wt. 13.1 lbs. homecooked food/ supplements: Balance IT, C-Biotic, Milk Thistle, Denosyl, Welactin, Prozyme. Molly's story: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Case:Miss_Molly
susee kilbanks		#2	[-]
Registered User Posts: 191 (11/11/09 15:58:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi..I just wanted to tell you of my experience with Simon..he was regulated for 2 years..like clockwork..and one day it just changed and he had a seizure..I put honey on his gums and he came too. and was fine........but for weeks..his sugar was wacky..up down.up up up..down up..crazy numbers.What had happened was that.Simon was getting more exercise...and was losing weight and I NEVER adjusted the insulin dosage........it happens for lots of reasons..I agree that you should post his weight or consider any changes that have ocurred. THis board helped me immensely and I am very lucky that Simon is back on track and I am hoping Roscoe will too..THis board has taught me patience and consistency......When this happened with Simon.my vet told me that it was going to take a bit to get him back on track..she called it "REBOUND" or somogyi..and I am sure someone on here will explain all about that....just my experience after Simon's seizure.THanks..Susee Lhasa-Poo 17.85lbs dx 8/4/07 Insulin: Presently 5 and a half units Humulin N BID 7AM and 6PM (working up to 12 hours) Home cook: Chicken breast, greenbeans and oatmeal or brown rice in premade frozen portions Snacks: dried chicken breast and cooked liver pieces and sometimes dog treat (carb)if walked Daily multivitamin
IamMomtoMissy		#3	[-]
Registered User Posts: 13441 (11/12/09 02:49:10) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I was wondering if the new all natural food was a 'grain-free' or low carb? , so if very little carbs and therfore the insulin and food didn't match? ( not enough carb for the insulin to 'work-with'.) Also the fiber content could have an big affect on how the food/insulin worked together. The "N" insulin normally works best with a high fiber diet. With such a wide span with those reading ( 50 and 400) tells me it could have previously been 400 then 50 which shows a huge drop and a red flag for symogyi rebound. I do think a curve is called for so you can tell just what is happening as to the food 'kicking in and the insulin as well. It really would be the best 'tool' to see how to get Roscoe back on track. I do feel you need to look at the fiber content and carb content of the new food to be sure it is one that works well with the "N" insulin. Also check the label for sources of unwanted 'sugars"... maybe carrots or fruits as so many of the natural foods have. I recall way back we had someone here who was feeding the WD and using Humulin N and the pooch needed to gain some additional weight and they added some cottage cheese to the food and it did indeed help put the weight on. My Missy happened to be overweight when first dx, then she slowly took the excess off. ( She too was on the WD and "N" insulin) the vet said The goal was to find the right amount of food to maintain her ideal weight and the insulin dose required to get that food/nourishment into her system. She was ideal at 10 pounds and ate about a cup of food per day ( divided into 2 meals) and on 3 units of "N" 2 X day. Another thing I was wondering is ...do you know the 'differential' of your meter results to lab results? Terry ,( Angel Missy- was diabetic) ,and my rescues> Naddie and Quincy (both non-diabetic)
roscoe		#4	[-]
Registered User Posts: 32 (11/15/09 19:28:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi All, I don't have the list of ingredients from the food bag because we threw it out when we put his new food in the container. I will ask my husband if we can somehow get the list of ingredients? I think the W/D dog food was very high in fiber, but the nutrient content was limited, therefore, we thought he needed a more nutrient rich food since he was losing weight? W/D seemed very limited on nutrients, just straight fiber/ carbs? We wanted to go more all natural for Roscoe so he would get a more well balanced diet? I know that his food needs to be high in fiber too, but I think this one is? I'm not sure about the carbs? I think my husband said it had a higher protein content than the W/D? Roscoe hasn't been getting any more excersize than normal, so I don't think that's a problem? We are trying to avoid vet bills, but if we have to call him we will. We are testing his blood glucose levels regularly, but I don't know the differential between our meter and lab results? I think we got it at one point, but that was last year and I can't remember what they said to add to our results to get the real number? I thought he told me to add 60 or 70 to my meter result? He doesn't seem sick or vomiting or anything, just a bit lathargic at times, but a few days ago he had a seizure and his glucose reading was like 40. But if I added what the vet said to add, than it would really be like 100 or so, which actually isn't that low, so why would he crash like that? The vet said Roscoe's ideal reading should be between 100 - 200? Does that sound right? He weighed in at around 33 lbs I think at his last weight check? The vet said they wanted him around 40 lbs for his size. He's small for a male English Springer Spaniel, but a medium size dog. I will do a curve, but I cannot do one around the clock, but I'll do my best to get as many readings as I can and post them? Thanks for all your help!!! I would have to say his weight now was around 30 lbs if I had to guess? Roscoe and Denise Name: Denise,Shawn & Roscoe Breed: English Springer Spaniel - Liver & White Weight: 34/35lbs. (estimate) Age: 3 1/2 yrs. DX: Got Roscoe in Nov. 2005, diagnosed at 2 with diabetes in 2007 Insulin Name & Units given : 8 units Novulin N 2/day Food used how much? W/D, 4 cups/day Treat given if any. No treats yet...? Denise Smith and Roscoe
roscoe	Roscoe's Dog food info...	#5	[-]
Registered User Posts: 33 (11/19/09 17:23:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi All! You asked me about the all natural food Roscoe was currently eating and I just found the bag. It is called Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance (AMP - Agility Muscle Performance) Ultra Premium Dog food. It is for highly active, working dogs with fresh chicken, chicken meal, brown rice, barley, lamb meal, oatmeal, and fresh pototoes. The ingredients list crude protein as the first ingredient at 27%, fiber is only 3%, with fat at 16%. Protein is the highest percentage and the first ingredient. Any input on the fiber content vs carbs vs insulin? Thanks, Denise/Roscoe Name: Denise,Shawn & Roscoe Breed: English Springer Spaniel - Liver & White Weight: 34/35lbs. (estimate) Age: 3 1/2 yrs. DX: Got Roscoe in Nov. 2005, diagnosed at 2 with diabetes in 2007 Insulin Name & Units given : 8 units Novulin N 2/day Food used how much? W/D, 4 cups/day Treat given if any. No treats yet...? Denise Smith and Roscoe
mlwschultz		#6	[-]
Registered User Posts: 980 (11/20/09 04:40:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The more fiber in the food, the long is takes to digest & that usually works better with the action of the insulin. Picture a normal insulin curve, then picture a digestion curve, with the digestion curve peaking sooner than the insulin curve. You want to get the food to match your dog's reaction to the insulin. So you may want to try adding some more fiber to his diet, either with a different food, or by adding another fiber source (some use something like Metamucil, others use pumpkin, etc.). We just had to switch Schultz to canned W/D for other health issues & vet is hoping this also helps his insulin work better for him because it is a high fiber food. So far so good. We made the switch Tuesday night & already he's sleeping through the night without drinking/peeing. Carbs digest pretty quickly & cause can BG to shoot up more rapidly, so try to get a mix that's slower to digest. Marilyn Schultz (dob 12/7/99, dx 1/5/07, 19 lbs, Novolin N 13 units, Wellness Simple Solutions Venison & Rice), Fritz (dob 4/7/03, Canidae Platinum), Frodo (dob 10/5/03, California Naturals Chicken & Rice), all are male Miniature Schnauzers.
Yukon	No substitute for Vetsulin	#7	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1 (11/23/09 08:42:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Our husky startted out on the human insulin but we could never get him to regulate, bottoming out a lot plus very high readings. We switched to Vetsulin 3 years ago and have had only two instances of bottoming out. I do not believe that the human insulin will ever let you regulate Roscoe properly, which in my opinion leaves you two choices: go back to Vetsulin or find a home for Roscoe. Sounds callous I know but if you cannot afford proper care then his well being has to trump everything and finding a home that can afford the proper care is a good thing.
Carolyn98	No substitute for Vetsulin	#8	[-]
Registered User Posts: 20 (11/23/09 11:13:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Yukon and welcome, I noticed your post to Roscoe's Mom and started a new thread for you and copied your post there. This way it will be more visible to our members. Carolyn & My Angel Rorky, Pomeranian...Wt.15lbs...DOB..5/10/98...DX...4/5/06...Caninsulin..8u am...7u pm...MediCal(canned+dry) 1/4 can + 1/4 cup q12hrs..loves fr.gr.beans,charlie bears,chicken jerky & medi treats. Rorky received his wings July16/08. Last Edited By: Carolyn98 11/23/09 11:36:43. Edited 3 times.
Jody921		#9	[-]
Registered User Posts: 146 (11/23/09 12:41:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Denise - you've been on this board for how long? I know it's been awhile. Keep working on Roscoe's regulation. I used the human insulin (Novolin NPH) for the entire time that Taffy was with us, actually 6 years, and she did wonderful on this insulin. Let us know how things are going ok? Jody (mom to Taffy, spaniel mix, - diabetic for 6 years - rec'd her wings in December '07 at the age of 13.)
birdk		#10	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2140 (11/23/09 14:48:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Denise why not do a 12 hour curve and see how his BS is staying all day then we will know if we need to cut the insulin. I don't know about your meter but mine is about 25 points low. If Roscoe had a seizure that sure does show possible low BS but I feel he can be regulated on NPH. Just need a curve to see. I used the Dick Van Patten for yrs with Bo. I used the Duck and potato because Bo also had IBD. He did fine on the lower fiber but like Marilyn says a high fiber works well with Insulin but sometimes is not feasible. 100 to 200 would be ok if he is consistently there. Me personally I am happy 200 and below and dont like to go below 100 so if Nick is 120 on up I am happy. Your doing fine. Not the first person that needs to change from vetsulin due to cost of insulin and the U 40 syringes. Just try that curve then we will know which way to go. The above statement about "proper care" ????? You are giving "proper care". You love your dog and you are trying to help him. A lot more than many do so keep up the good work!!!!!! Kay....Bo..Black miniature schnauzer.. 1995-2007..Diabetes & IBD. Emma 6 years non-diabetic. S/P mini schnauzer . Nick, my grand dog. 11 yrs old. Mini Schnauzer. Diabetic since May 2008. NPH Insulin 5 units twice per day. Weighs 20 lbs. Food: Blue Holistic dry with canned twice per day.
mommytoNash		#11	[-]
Registered User Posts: 948 (11/23/09 14:58:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hi Denise, That Roscoe is just as cute as he has ever been. Remember our big debate on whether that was his tongue? Johanna had to blow up the picture, because she just didn't believe that was his tongue, even though we told her it was!! Too funny!! Anyway, I wanted you to know that Nash was originally on the Vetsulin, and then we switched him to Relion Novelin N, for the same reasons you did. In these times, money is an issue. And most of the folks here have their pets on Novelin N, and have wonderful results. It's a shame when people come on and criticise you without knowing all your circumstances, and TALK about you giving away your beloved dog. I know how hard you've worked to keep Roscoe healthy. So don't let mouthy people deter you one bit. You have always tried to do the best by Roscoe! You have friends who will walk you through this, and see if we can figure out exactly what is going on with Roscoe and his highs and lows. I believe it's rebound. And it might be tied to the recent change in your food. Yukon, it'd be nice to know who you are and a little bit about your dog. I've always felt it's best to learn about everyone before passing judgement. So, when you get a chance, it'd be nice for you to let us know a bit about you, and your dog. This is a place where people should feel safe to share, learn and grow through this horrible disease. I sent you a PM Denise. Take care!! Give Roscoe a big hug from me. Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 12units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 months after his dx.
sissysmommy		#12	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1734 (11/23/09 16:47:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yes - I remember that debate. It was between whether it was his tongue or a scarf! I believe there were more on the scarf side! Sissy was a 15 1/2 year old Lhasa Apso. She was diagnosed with diabetes on September 21, 2007. She went to the Rainbow Bridge and received her wings on February 28, 2009. I miss you, Sissy. Run free and eat lots of treats. Fritz - a Bichon Frise - came to our family 3-8-09. About 7 months old. Fritz is a 4 footed wrecking crew. "In moments of joy, all of us wished we possessed a tail we could wag" W.H. Auden
IamMomtoMissy		#13	[-]
Registered User Posts: 13490 (11/23/09 20:16:36) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I think if you do a curve it might guide you to what's going on and indicate any adjustments you might have to do to smooth things out. My Missy did fantastically on the "N" and I'd use it again in a heartbeat if one of mine ever became diabetic. What we DID learn with her was that she 'peaked' much earlier than the norm...soooo it was just a matter of giving her a snack 1/2 hour before her peak her (low) and it worked beautifully! She never had a hypo nor ever rebounded, but it 'could' have happened if we didn't have that curve to guide us. Good luck and Roscoe is blessed to have you! Terry ,( Angel Missy- was diabetic) ,and my rescues> Naddie and Quincy (both non-diabetic)
lindsay write		#14	[-]
Registered User Posts: 3348 (11/23/09 23:23:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Nice to hear from you again, Denise! Sounds like your house is a busy place. You've always done well for Roscoe. We just need to figure out how to put some weight on that handsome guy. Jenny started out on Vetsulin (called Caninsulin where I live) and it didn't work for her. My vet only had experience with this type of insulin so she was startled when I asked if we could try NPH. I guess I was the first to ask because she had to research all the different insulins before giving me her opinion. She still wasn't convinced that switching was in Jenny's best interest. But we gave it a try - Jenny improved immediately - and now my vet recommends it just as quickly as Caninsulin. It's good to know there are other options available. Jenny also lost a lot of weight on occasion, most likely due completely to the food/insulin routine, but we managed to bring it back up by increasing her food and adjusting the insulin as we went. But the weight loss also happened when there were other medical issues going on. I'm sorry if I missed it in your posts but does Roscoe have any other health concerns - hypothyroid - anything like that? Jac, Ella (golden retriever, not diabetic), Abbey (golden retriever/Irish setter, not diabetic) beautiful Angel Jenny (golden retriever), and cats Mona and Ernie. Jenny passed away February 15, 2008 at almost 14 years old. Weight: 65 pounds. Diabetes, myasthenia gravis, hypothyroid. Started on Caninsulin (Vetsulin) for 3 months then switched to NPH - 13 units twice daily. .
margo hupe		#15	[-]
Registered User Posts: 436 (11/24/09 06:46:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	As a GENERAL rule you add 30 points if readings are 50-70, 50 pts. if the result is 70 to 100, 100 points if results are 150 to 250 and above 300 you add about 50 pts. Margo
roscoe	Update on Roscoe...	#16	[-]
Registered User Posts: 34 (11/29/09 12:55:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Very funny about the tongue discussion...HA,HA,HA,HA! You guys are so funny, I will never live down our Roscoe's big tongue!! Thank you all for your help and advice. I will do a curve on Roscoe this week. The meter I have is an Accu-Chek Advantage? I don't know if anyone is using, or has used this type of meter, but I believe the vet told us about 60-70 points to add to our reading? I always thought the higher the fiber in the food the faster it digested?? The food we are currently using is the Dick Van Patten's all Natural food, but my husband just bought another one he thought would be good to mix in and that is called Blue Buffalo Wilderness?? Is anyone experienced with that particular brand of food?? I will do a curve on him this week and let you know what the results are? Hopefully we can regulate his BG levels?? Hope you all had a blessed Thanksgiving celebration!! Thanks so much all of you for your generous support and kindness to Roscoe and me! Name: Denise,Shawn & Roscoe Breed: English Springer Spaniel - Liver & White Weight: 34/35lbs. (estimate) Age: 3 1/2 yrs. DX: Got Roscoe in Nov. 2005, diagnosed at 2 with diabetes in 2007 Insulin Name & Units given : 8 units Novulin N 2/day Food used how much? W/D, 4 cups/day Treat given if any. No treats yet...? Denise Smith and Roscoe
birdk		#17	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2152 (11/29/09 14:10:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I use the Blue Buffalo small bites for Nick. As best I can tell Blue is a great food. The higher fiber the longer it takes to digest, slow digestion which will help deter a high rise from food. I tried it with Nick but....he left surprises every morning in the bed so I had to stop! Oh well....The best way to ck your meter is when the vet draws a lab for the machine ck your meter blood at the same time and see how off they are. I have had meters just off 10 points and some off as much as 50. Kay....Bo..Black miniature schnauzer.. 1995-2007..Diabetes & IBD. Emma 6 years non-diabetic. S/P mini schnauzer . Nick, my grand dog. 11 yrs old. Mini Schnauzer. Diabetic since May 2008. NPH Insulin 5 units twice per day. Weighs 20 lbs. Food: Blue Holistic dry with canned twice per day.
sissysmommy		#18	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1744 (11/29/09 15:04:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I used the Blue Buffalo (Senior) for Sissy. It worked really well for her - she was on Vetsulin. She got so picky toward the end that she wouldn't eat it and I just switched her to canned Merrick. Sissy was a 15 1/2 year old Lhasa Apso. She was diagnosed with diabetes on September 21, 2007. She went to the Rainbow Bridge and received her wings on February 28, 2009. I miss you, Sissy. Run free and eat lots of treats. Fritz - a Bichon Frise - came to our family 3-8-09. About 7 months old. Fritz is a 4 footed wrecking crew. "In moments of joy, all of us wished we possessed a tail we could wag" W.H. Auden
babettes		#19	[-]
Registered User Posts: 2 (12/10/09 11:20:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hello , I am new to diabetes . My dog was just diagnosed. She is on 3 units insulin twice a day . My vet said it didn't matter what she ate . Could you give me some info . on what kind of food is best for her . You seem to have experience with this . Thank you . Love your doggie's pic . so cute !
sissysmommy		#20	[-]
Registered User Posts: 1754 (12/10/09 11:55:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	We started a new thread for you so that more people would see it. Sissy was a 15 1/2 year old Lhasa Apso. She was diagnosed with diabetes on September 21, 2007. She went to the Rainbow Bridge and received her wings on February 28, 2009. I miss you, Sissy. Run free and eat lots of treats. Fritz - a Bichon Frise - came to our family 3-8-09. About 7 months old. Fritz is a 4 footed wrecking crew. "In moments of joy, all of us wished we possessed a tail we could wag" W.H. Auden

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